tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post3132851267179179044..comments2023-11-03T06:26:00.486-07:00Comments on Ms. Kitty's Saloon and Road Show: Difficulties of this SeasonUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-30277267148238435262009-04-09T11:39:00.000-07:002009-04-09T11:39:00.000-07:00Thank you for your interesting response, EBS. I am...Thank you for your interesting response, EBS. I am aware that John is propagandizing especially for the christology he advocates, and there are many other submotifs. <BR/> Part of the interpretation of the text depends on one's stance towards it. Regarding the beloved disciple, the point, I think, is not why Jesus singled him out, but why John portrayed Jesus as singling such a person out. <BR/> But, since I was originally trained as a linguist-philologist with a necessity of immersing myself in Greek Christian texts of various sorts, I usually do best to leave the theological points to the theologians, rarely sticking my neck out as I did here.<BR/> Thank you for the stimulation, Kit.LinguistFriendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02695715246663202212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-37886352078369411782009-04-09T09:48:00.000-07:002009-04-09T09:48:00.000-07:00Thanks, EBS, I like your thoughts.Thanks, EBS, I like your thoughts.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-18664917645854419132009-04-09T09:24:00.000-07:002009-04-09T09:24:00.000-07:00Ms. K - thanks for the note.LF - I also appreciate...Ms. K - thanks for the note.<BR/><BR/>LF - I also appreciate your take on John. As one who is skeptical about historical evidence, I treat the gospel of John as mostly propaganda. <BR/><BR/>In John, there is a clear shift to emphasizing Jesus' divinity and special status. A lot of that has to do with the love doctrine that permeates the gospel. The synoptics don't make as much of the "love one another" command as this gospel does. <BR/><BR/>My homily spins that way. I don't spend much time on Mary and her feelings... In having Mary and the beloved "adopt" one another, Jesus is making a point about love beyond familial ties and basing his action on love, not law or custom. I also point out that Jesus' death is modeling the behavior expected of he disciples - that they must love one another enough to die.<BR/><BR/>(And regarding the beloved, there is much speculation among some scholars on why Jesus singled this disciple out.)Earthbound Spirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14042611502142798184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-33218711509730018242009-04-09T06:01:00.000-07:002009-04-09T06:01:00.000-07:00Thanks, LF. You have added a great deal to the co...Thanks, LF. You have added a great deal to the conversation. I hope that EBS sees your comment. I'll send her a note.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-66088465104340783372009-04-09T04:37:00.000-07:002009-04-09T04:37:00.000-07:00But this is John, so the passage has essentially n...But this is John, so the passage has essentially no historical significance, despite the fact that the gospel's first manuscript fragment (written about 125 AD) is the earliest Greek NT MS. One can look at the parallels in Mark 15:40and Mt. 27:55; Luke 23:49 condenses the list. (That is probably what you will find in Aland's big blue-bound synopsis of the gospels, but I'm at the office and am just following out the parallels in my Greek NT.). John was consciously adding something to the tradition found in the synoptic gospels. They have parallels to the list of women observers, but not to Jesus's commendation of Mary and the beloved disciple to one another in John 19:26-27. So John was not just retailing the prevailing historical tradition but adding a notion he thought was missing, whether it came from another tradition or from his own thought. Probably it was the latter, a conscious effort to emphasize the importance of the beloved disciple by connecting him to Jesus's mother Mary. This might have been an effort to legitimize a local tradition of a special connection of the local church to the early events around Jesus through the beloved disciple. (Just speculating.)<BR/> To me, your interpretation is better than the text you are interpreting. The issue of relations between humans within and across generations is something special. It is just as reasonable to see this issue here as the special point that John was advocating; he always has his special objectives, to which he subordinates the historical circumstances in a way that has become well established, so that we tend to see the Synoptics through the eyes of John, as Elaine Pagels has pointed out.LinguistFriendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02695715246663202212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-75071790126665111902009-04-08T17:29:00.000-07:002009-04-08T17:29:00.000-07:00Thanks, Joel.Thanks, Joel.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-37197361342919837772009-04-08T16:21:00.000-07:002009-04-08T16:21:00.000-07:00Interesting. It gets some depth behind the title "...Interesting. It gets some depth behind the title "Our Lady of Sorrows." Well done.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-58252606878412592332009-04-07T20:11:00.000-07:002009-04-07T20:11:00.000-07:00Agreed, Pixie, thanks.Agreed, Pixie, thanks.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-58403471086843647432009-04-07T19:00:00.000-07:002009-04-07T19:00:00.000-07:00Interesting! I've never really read this part of ...Interesting! I've never really read this part of the crucifixion story, but it speaks to something very important in our lives. On their deathbeds, people will tell their survivors to take care of each other and be good, and in a way it would appear that Jesus is reminding his most near and dear survivors to do the same for each other.Mile High Pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03276750909800945131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-69740293597962427862009-04-07T17:42:00.000-07:002009-04-07T17:42:00.000-07:00I know that's the common thought, but it occurred ...I know that's the common thought, but it occurred to me that it might be himself he was speaking about.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-17866430038648259912009-04-07T17:32:00.000-07:002009-04-07T17:32:00.000-07:00I've always read "Woman, behold your son" with Joh...I've always read "Woman, behold your son" with John as the son, not Jesus. I'll have to go back and re-read it...Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11979209082140964109noreply@blogger.com