tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post2448043921970657226..comments2023-11-03T06:26:00.486-07:00Comments on Ms. Kitty's Saloon and Road Show: Why don't UUs do more for our military personnel?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-83327454298342405402008-08-18T15:53:00.000-07:002008-08-18T15:53:00.000-07:00Thanks very much, David.Thanks very much, David.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-58601478813977288042008-08-18T15:22:00.000-07:002008-08-18T15:22:00.000-07:00Rev. Kit,I have taken the opportunity your questio...Rev. Kit,<BR/><BR/>I have taken the opportunity your questions brought forth to put together an article at Celestial Lands on what we are as an association doing (that I know of)in the realm of military ministry. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for the inspiration.<BR/><BR/>http://celestiallands.org/wayside/?p=96<BR/><BR/>Yours in Faith,<BR/><BR/>DavidDavid Pylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01651422808610886514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-14847763373283534272008-08-17T19:25:00.000-07:002008-08-17T19:25:00.000-07:00Thanks, Pixie, I'm getting more and more intereste...Thanks, Pixie, I'm getting more and more interested in it, and the comments and emails I've been getting, as well as David's posts, are very insightful.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-4711986678029410402008-08-17T14:18:00.000-07:002008-08-17T14:18:00.000-07:00Rev. Kit--Well put. I think this post has done a ...Rev. Kit--Well put. I think this post has done a better job of explaining the conundrum of the American soldier today. While the military trains our soldiers to move as one unit and to act first, then think--which is very much needed in life-or-death situations, to be able to act in dangerous instances with instinct--they still indeed are humans who must reflect on their actions later, and for the rest of their lives. I for one believe that we can support that thinking, breathing human being without liking the very particular job they've been sent to do. I look forward to seeing what actions are spurred by your questions.Mile High Pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03276750909800945131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-54893936718881574882008-08-16T20:45:00.000-07:002008-08-16T20:45:00.000-07:00Thanks, David. I will do it. Please feel free to...Thanks, David. I will do it. Please feel free to communicate via email: kitketcham at comcast.netLilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-25633201421826072062008-08-16T19:50:00.000-07:002008-08-16T19:50:00.000-07:00Absolutely...If it makes sense for me to write a s...Absolutely...<BR/><BR/>If it makes sense for me to write a specific article on this for Celestial Lands that you could then point them to, I would be happy to do that, or you can just point them to my response here. <BR/><BR/>I think that because I am at the not so pointy end of the stick, I see how much progress has been made in this faith on the issue of how we relate to the military... but that if you did not have the view of being at the not so pointy end you would not see it so much. <BR/><BR/>So, give me a day or two to write an article that also points people in directions of resources, and get it on the web. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for pointing out the need for such a thing to me. <BR/><BR/>Yours in Faith,<BR/><BR/>DavidDavid Pylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01651422808610886514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-67062956026178252482008-08-16T06:54:00.000-07:002008-08-16T06:54:00.000-07:00David, thanks for your thoughts. I want to let mi...David, thanks for your thoughts. I want to let ministers on the chat know that it's there. Our conversation in recent days on the chat has (to me) exhibited a growing awareness that we are not doing much for our military personnel who are serving out of a sense of commitment both to faith and country.<BR/><BR/>Is it okay to alert them?Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-60483702121881017122008-08-15T20:31:00.000-07:002008-08-15T20:31:00.000-07:00I want to thank you for bringing up this question…...I want to thank you for bringing up this question… it is an amazingly important one. I believe that such questions about seeming incongruities between our actions as a faith and our values as a faith can point in ways that we can continue to grow. <BR/><BR/>Five years ago, I began talking publically about possibly becoming a UU minister and a military chaplain… and I ran head first into this issue. While UU leadership was more than supportive of my pursuing this call to ministry, there were times that members of our congregations sometimes questioned whether or not I was even a UU because I would even consider serving. <BR/><BR/>What I have seen in these last three years has warmed my heart, and has re-affirmed my belief in our faith’s ability to grow and mature. There has been a sea-change in UU attitudes towards the military, one that began in UU leadership and has been flowing outward ever since. I want to highlight some of the wonderful work that is happening within our faith with regards to how we relate to the military. <BR/><BR/>In 2007, the UUA created a task force that studied the issue of military chaplaincy, and then completely re-drafted our UUA policies on supporting and endorsing such chaplains. There is now a UUA staff appointed committee (The Committee on Military Ministry) that has responsibility for selecting and supporting our military chaplains. Since this committee has formed, our faith has gone from three chaplains to 13+ Chaplains and Chaplain Candidates. <BR/><BR/>The Chicago area congregations have taken on support and responsibility for a program that provides Sunday Morning UU worship services for the basic training recruits at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, reaching over 1,000 recruits per year with a message of liberal faith. I serve as the current minister/director of this project. <BR/><BR/>The UUA is currently in development for a devotional book in Liberal Faith that will be produced and distributed free to service members. <BR/><BR/>Several UU organizations are working to develop online resources and communications tools for our UU servicemembers, to keep them connected to our faith, to each other, and to our UU ministers serving as Chaplains. There is also development occurring on providing resources to our congregations on how to care for the servicemembers, military members, and families within our congregations. If there are ministers specifically looking to learn more on this, please contact me at Celestial Lands and I will send you some resources. <BR/><BR/>These are just a few of the ways in which our faith is beginning to address this issue of how we relate to the military. One thing I have learned from my experience of facilitating UU worship for the Basic Training recruits at Great Lakes is that there are certainly Unitarian Universalists serving in the military… they just often either have never heard of our faith… or they believe that we would not accept them because of what they do for a living. <BR/><BR/>We are beginning to address this need through our denominational structures. The next step is to do the same within our congregations. I recommend two churches whose examples we may follow… the Unitarian Church of Evanston, IL… and the UU Church of Norfolk VA. The Norfolk Church has created a UU Military Support Group, and the Evanston Church has intentionally found ways to bring the stories of their veterans into the life of the congregation. <BR/><BR/>Sorry for the long post… and I agree we have much work to do on how our faith relates to the military… but lets not lose sight of the good beginning we have to work from. <BR/><BR/>Yours in Faith,<BR/><BR/>David<BR/><BR/>aka <BR/>2LT David Pyle<BR/>U.S. Army Reserve Chaplain CandidateDavid Pylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01651422808610886514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-62695077101376357972008-08-15T10:34:00.000-07:002008-08-15T10:34:00.000-07:00Thanks, Bill.Thanks, Bill.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-55128226147302573582008-08-15T10:31:00.000-07:002008-08-15T10:31:00.000-07:00Send me an email...Bill_Baar@hotmail.comI can put ...Send me an email...Bill_Baar@hotmail.com<BR/><BR/>I can put you in touch with people in your area.Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-46253102226473501412008-08-14T18:27:00.000-07:002008-08-14T18:27:00.000-07:00Thanks, Laura, I appreciate your insight. I agree...Thanks, Laura, I appreciate your insight. I agree---helping without asking what people need isn't really helping, most of the time.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-10913047267508730352008-08-14T18:23:00.000-07:002008-08-14T18:23:00.000-07:00::pausing for thought::I just want you to know I a...::pausing for thought::<BR/><BR/>I just want you to know I am thinking about this. No answers, no solutions... but you have me thinking deeply about this in a way I hadn't really considered.<BR/><BR/>We have a several active-duty and retired military members in our UU community, too, and now I feel as though, somehow, we have been giving them short shrift by not ever really *asking* them about their needs and wants. Maybe that's where to start. I know it is similar with my own mental illness - I don't want someone coming in and trying to fix *me* or my situations without asking if I have any needs or wants to fulfill first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-81089384468919535202008-08-14T15:10:00.000-07:002008-08-14T15:10:00.000-07:00Thanks, EBS, for noting David's blog. I read it r...Thanks, EBS, for noting David's blog. I read it regularly and find it illuminating.<BR/><BR/>Bill, Rene is here on Whidbey Island and she and I are good friends. We are an expensive ferry ride and 50 miles away from the VA hospital in Seattle.<BR/><BR/>I can see what you're saying about the PTSD diagnosis being a scary label to put on someone. Thanks for the reminder.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-12169011785547920962008-08-14T14:28:00.000-07:002008-08-14T14:28:00.000-07:00Craftyrene...what is your area?Please keep in mind...Craftyrene...what is your area?<BR/><BR/>Please keep in mind one of the stigmas confronting anyone who has deployed --mil or civ in my case-- is that we're nuts.<BR/><BR/>Getting the label psycho vet can be a real problem looking for a job.<BR/><BR/>Recall during Vietnam days and VVAW thought the PTSD Dx was a plot by Nixon Admin to label protesting Vets as pyschos...<BR/><BR/>I just completed my third post-deployment health assesment (third assesment; only one short deployment) over the phone yesterday. It gets a little old after a while.<BR/><BR/>And speaking of old, I chatted with the interviewer afterwords who said he had just talked with a 71 yo guy going back for his 6th deployment to Iraq....Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-48455368512848735562008-08-14T13:46:00.000-07:002008-08-14T13:46:00.000-07:00Ms. K,I recommend to you & others the excellen...Ms. K,<BR/>I recommend to you & others the excellent "Celestial Lands" blog written by our colleague David Pyle. Scroll through the posts to find thought-provoking stuff about UUism and the military. Here's the URL: http://celestiallands.org/wayside/ <BR/>My conversations with David, and a couple other seminarians preparing for military chaplaincy, have helped me clarify my own feelings and strongly influenced the Memorial Day sermon I preached this year.Earthbound Spirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14042611502142798184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-46143453148367870862008-08-14T13:08:00.000-07:002008-08-14T13:08:00.000-07:00Thanks, Bill and Rene. Both of you offer solid su...Thanks, Bill and Rene. Both of you offer solid suggestions.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-7930393108027158712008-08-14T12:18:00.000-07:002008-08-14T12:18:00.000-07:00It is a hard line to walk. The vets in our area fa...It is a hard line to walk. The vets in our area face a real challenge in that the VA hospital is so far away. As far as I know the services at the bases are now only for the enlisted men not the vets so there is only one location for Vets to get help. The other thing that poses a problem is that the VA hospital has never been real "hip" on helping with mental issues. It is a challenge to provide mental help when you dont want to admit that you are causing permanent damage to our youth. This has not changed much since vietnam. When we lived in San Diego some 20 years ago... the number of homeless men and women with mental illness who were Vietnam vets were 80% of the homeless in San Diego proper!! <BR/>How to support the military vets without supporting the policies... speak up.. Talk to your senators and make sure they hear you! Tell the papers the stories about these vets.. Write to our president.. (not that it will do much good but at least you will be on the record) and then speak up to the senators, and congressmen and president and tell them you do not want this war... <BR/>If you want to help more then keep in mind that many of our military are single young men and women who cant go home for the holidays. They need families they can spend time with and they need friends. You can call the base and find out organizations that set up these arrangements or you can call the base chaplan. Either way... sometimes the only support you can really show is to reach out and hug someone military!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-62137677668268933892008-08-14T12:14:00.000-07:002008-08-14T12:14:00.000-07:00In Illinois, each county has a Veterans Assistance...In Illinois, each county has a Veterans Assistance Office. It would be my first choice to contact with these kinds of questions.<BR/><BR/>Here is the <A HREF="http://www.dva.wa.gov/ptsd_counseling.html" REL="nofollow">website</A> from the State of Wash Dept of VA for PTSD Counseling.<BR/><BR/>My Church's Social Justice Committee donated to VFW's <A HREF="http://www.unmetneeds.com/" REL="nofollow">Unmet needs</A> program when it wanted to do something for service member families. 100% of the donation go to families...VFW eats the admin costs itself.Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-60821933178092536702008-08-14T11:09:00.000-07:002008-08-14T11:09:00.000-07:00So it seems to me that UUs and other progessive re...So it seems to me that UUs and other progessive religious bodies ought to be clarifying the statement and reaching out. I don't think that conservative folks are doing much either. And, according to the parents of our disabled PTSD guy, vets organizations like VFW and AL aren't helping. At least they aren't helping in this geographic area.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-51603132005658640842008-08-14T11:06:00.000-07:002008-08-14T11:06:00.000-07:00It does seem like people don't put their money whe...It does seem like people don't put their money where their mouths are in terms of "support". I mean, in our conservative area, "supporting the troops" means voting Republican.....Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18040824813209082919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-16665362397519562422008-08-14T10:44:00.000-07:002008-08-14T10:44:00.000-07:00People on both sides of the issue say they support...People on both sides of the issue say they support the troops and many do mean "don't question". Others haven't really clarified what that means. <BR/><BR/>I think it means coming to terms with the appropriate jobs they are asked to do, giving them adequate protection, care, and treatment, and bringing them home in a timely way. I think supporting the troops means questioning the government's policies in wartime in an effective way (which is not necessarily anti-war protests). <BR/><BR/>I think we can't stop with that tacit disapproval; we need to get treatment, educational benefits, family support, etc., to our warriors, i.e., put our money where our mouths are.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your thoughts, Ms. T.Lilylouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02328027965155428624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30312228.post-64753338656920749192008-08-14T10:37:00.000-07:002008-08-14T10:37:00.000-07:00It's an intriguing issue in terms of.I'm really no...It's an intriguing issue in terms of.<BR/><BR/>I'm really not sure what it means to support the troops in any sense. <BR/><BR/>Lobbying for extensive mental, job, and financial help post-service would be something I could morally agree with (and raising salaries) as is sending personal supplies over seas. But...often when people talk about "supporting the troops" they are really talking about not questioning the policies of the government.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18040824813209082919noreply@blogger.com